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Giants and the Sons of God


Proofs that Giants Were the Sons of Angels:

1. The fact that giants have lived on earth is clearly stated in Scripture. The Hebrew nephil (OT:5303) means “giant” or “tyrant” (Genesis 6:4; Numbers 13:33). The men of Israel were as grasshoppers compared to them (Numbers 13:33). The Hebrewgibbowr (OT:1368) is also translated “giant,” meaning powerful, giant, mighty, or strong man (Job 16:14). To say these original words refer to their degree of wickedness instead of bodily size is a mistake.

The Anakims were a great and tall people (Deut. 1:28; Deut. 2:10-11,21; Deut. 9:2; Joshua 11:21-22; Joshua 14:12-14). Anak himself was a giant (Numbers 13:33). If all Anakims were as big, we can be assured other giants were also. The land of Ammon was “a land of giants,” for “giants dwelt therein in old time” (Deut. 2:19-20). The Emims were also “great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims” (Deut. 2:10-11). The same was said of the Zamzummims who formerly inhabited the land of Ammon (Deut. 2:19-21).

Og, king of Bashan, is described as a giant whose iron bedstead was eighteen and a half feet long, and eight feet four inches wide. This is not a measurement of wickedness, but of a material bed for a giant body measuring nearly eighteen feet tall (Deut. 3:11; Joshua 12:4; Joshua 13:12). Bashan is called “the land of the giants” (Deut. 3:13).

A “valley of the giants” is mentioned in Joshua 15:8; Joshua 18:16. This is the valley of Rephaim, the name of another branch of the giant races mentioned in Scripture (Genesis 14:5; Genesis 15:20; 2 Samuel 5:18,22; 2 Samuel 23:13; 1 Chron. 11:15; 1 Chron. 14:9; Isaiah 17:5).

The Rephaim were well-known giants, but unfortunately, instead of retaining their proper name in Scripture, the translators used dead (Job 26:5; Psalm 88:10; Proverbs 2:18; Proverbs 9:18; Proverbs 21:16; Isaiah 14:8; Isaiah 26:19); and deceased (Isaiah 26:14).

It should have been a proper name in all these places, as it is ten times otherwise. See notes on these passages which prove that giant bodies are referred to instead of great wickedness.

Rephaim is translated “giant” in Deut. 2:11,20; Deut. 3:11,13; Joshua 12:4; Joshua 13:12; Joshua 15:8; Joshua 18:16; 2 Samuel 21:16,18,20,22; 1 Chron. 20:4,6,8.

The phrase “remnant of the giants” in Deut. 3:11; Joshua 12:4; Joshua 13:12 should be “remnant of the Rephaim,” because there were many nations of giants other than the Rephaims who filled the whole country trying to contest God’s claim on the promised land. They are listed as Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaims, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites, Jebusites, Hivites, Anakims, Emims, Horims, Avims, Zamzummims, Caphtorims, and Nephilim (Genesis 6:4; Genesis 14:5-6; Genesis 15:19-21; Exodus 3:8,17; Exodus 23:23; Deut. 2:10-12,20-23; Deut. 3:11-13; Deut. 7:1; Deut. 20:17; Joshua 12:4-8; Joshua 13:3; Joshua 15:8; Joshua 17:15; Joshua 18:16).

Og was of the remnant of Rephaims, not the remnant of all other giant nations (Deut. 3:11; Joshua 12:4; Joshua 13:12).

All these giant nations came from a union of the sons of God (fallen angels) and daughters of men after the flood. Beings of great stature, some of them even had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot and carried spears weighing from 10 to 25 pounds (2 Samuel 21:16-22; 1 Chron. 20:4-8).

Goliath, whom David slew, wore a coat of armor weighing 196 pounds and was nine feet and nine inches tall (1 Samuel 17:4-6). The pyramids of Egypt, the giant cities of Bashan and other huge monuments of construction may remain a mystery until they are accepted as the result of the labor and skill of giants.

The revelation we have of giants in Scripture gives us a true picture of what Greek mythology tries in vain to give. Mythology is but the outgrowth of traditions, memories, and legends telling of the acts of supernatural fathers and their giant offspring-the perversion and corruption in the transmission of actual facts concerning these mighty beings. The fact that giants were partly of supernatural origin made it easy for human beings to regard them as gods.

2. The fact that the Rephaim have no resurrection (Isaiah 26:14) proves the reality of giants and that they were not ordinary men. All ordinary men are to be resurrected (John 5:28-29); therefore, giants must be a different class from pure Adamites. Isaiah makes it clear that the dead (Hebrew: Rephaiym (OT:7497)) are now in hell (Isaiah 14:9). Solomon confirms this in Proverbs 2:18; Proverbs 9:18; Proverbs 21:16 where the Hebrew word for dead is Rephaim. See notes, Isaiah 26:14,19.

3. The fact that giants came only from a union of sons of God and daughters of men proves that their fathers were not ordinary men of Adamite stock. No such monstrosities have been produced by the union of any ordinary man and woman, regardless of the righteousness of the father or the wickedness of the mother. Many converted men who are sons of God in the sense of adoption and righteousness through Christ have been married to unconverted women, and no offspring the size of Biblical giants has ever resulted from these unions. If, as some teach, giants were born of such unions both before and after the flood, then why do not such marriages produce that kind of offspring today? Why did this happen in every case then and never today?

4. God’s law of reproduction from the beginning has been everything after its own kind. It was not possible then that giants could be produced by men and women of ordinary size (Genesis 1:11-12,21,24-25; Genesis 8:19). It took a supernatural element, the purpose and power of Satan and his angels, to make human offspring of such proportion. After giants came into being, they then produced others of like size instead of ordinary sized men (Numbers 13:33; 2 Samuel 21:16,18,20,22; 1 Chron. 20:4-8).

5. Not only is it unscriptural but unhistorical to teach those giants came from the union of ordinary men and women. The great question has been: Where did giants get their start? Genesis 6:4 makes it clear-from a union of the sons of God and daughters of men. If the sons of God were ordinary men in the same sense that the daughters of men were ordinary women, then we must conclude four things:

(1) Ungodly women have the power to produce such monsters if married to godly men.

(2) Godly men have the power to produce giants when married to ungodly women.

(3) A mixture of godliness and wickedness produces giants.

(4) Extreme wickedness on the part of either parent will produce giant offspring.

All four conclusions are wrong, however, as proven every day by the ordinary offspring of wicked and godly parents. Thus, the theory that giants came from the marriage of Seth’s sons with Cain’s daughters is disproved.

6. The sons of God could not have been the sons of Seth or other godly men for the following seven reasons:

(1) There were no men godly enough to be saved during the Antediluvian Age except Abel (Genesis 4:4; Hebrews 11:4), Enoch (Genesis 5:21-24; Hebrews 11:5), and Noah (Genesis 6:8; Genesis 7:1; Hebrews 11:7), as far as Scripture is concerned. Shall we conclude that these three men were the sons of God who married the daughters of Cain and produced races of giants in the earth in those days before the flood (Genesis 6:4)? We have no record of any marriage or offspring of Abel before he was murdered. Regarding Enoch, are we to believe that Methuselah and his other children were the giants? Are we to believe that Noah’s three sons-Shem, Ham, and Japheth-were giants? If so, where is our authority for this?

Had this been true, there would have been nothing on earth after the flood but giants, for by Noah’s children the whole earth was replenished (Genesis 10).
That would cause another unsolved mystery-how giants became ordinary sized men again.

(2) The time of the marriages of the sons of God disproves the theory that they were the sons of Seth. Marriages of Seth’s sons could not have taken place during the first 325 years. He had only one son of marriageable age up to that time (Genesis 5:1-8) and he (Enos) was not godly (see The Line of Seth). To say there were no such marriages before Enos contradicts Genesis 6:1-2 which shows that sons of God married daughters of men when they began to be born. Shall we conclude that daughters were not born in the first 325 years? If so, where did Cain, Seth, and others get their wives?

Furthermore, such marriages between godly sons and ungodly daughters could not have been during the last 600 years before the flood, because Noah was the only son of God by righteousness during this time (Genesis 6:8-9; Genesis 7:1; 2 Peter 2:4-5).

His sons were preserved in the ark because of being pure Adamite stock, not because of personal righteousness. The above facts then limit these marriages to the 731 years between the first 325 years and the last 600 of the Antediluvian Age, whereas sons of God actually married daughters of men throughout the entire 1,656 years of that age. Genesis 6:1-2 makes it clear that this happened “when men began to multiply on the face of the earth.”

(3) Genesis 6:4 teaches that there were giants on the earth “in those days” (before the flood), “and also after that” (after those days which were before the flood), as a result of the sons of God marrying the daughters of men.

If the sons of God were the sons of Seth, we can account for them “after that” (after the flood), for the line of Seth was continued through Noah. But with the daughters of Cain (supposed by some to be the daughters of men) the story is different. Cain’s line perished in the flood, which means there were no daughters of Cain after the flood for sons of God to marry.

(4) The Bible gives us no reason to believe that the statement “the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair” should be limited to Cain’s daughters. Thousands of families from the many branches of the race both before and after the flood had daughters too. In the 1,656 years before the flood (which is the period in which Seth and Cain lived), there must have been from 150 million to 500 million people.

It is unbelievable that so many as half of these were godly and half ungodly, and we know that they were not limited to two lines-the line of Seth and the line of Cain. Regarding Seth’s daughters, we have reason to believe that they were as fair as the daughters of Cain-beautiful enough to attract men as husbands for themselves. The line of Seth alone survived the flood, so we know this is true. Genesis 6:1-2 therefore, cannot be said to refer only to the daughters of Cain; and the term “daughters of men” cannot be limited to the daughters of Cain.

(5) The very expressions “sons of God” and “daughters of men” indicate two different kinds-one the product of God, the other the product of man. Seth was not God, so why call the sons of God the sons of Seth?

(6) It is a matter of record that Seth’s children were as ungodly as Cain’s. The firstborn of Seth even started idolatry, as proven in The Line of Seth.

(7) With the exception of Noah and his family, all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth before the flood (Genesis 6:12), which means the entire race (besides Noah’s family) had become a mixture of fallen angels and men, or giants. Only Noah and his family had kept their lineage pure from Adam, which is really why they were saved in the ark. They were the only ones capable of giving the race a new, clean start after the flood. It is said of Noah that he was a just man and perfect in his generations (Genesis 6:9).

The Hebrew for “perfect” is tamiym (OT:8549), which means without blemish. It is the technical word for physical perfection, not moral perfection. It is so used of the sacrificial animals of the Old Testament which had to be of pure stock and without blemish (Exodus 12:5; Exodus 29:1; Leviticus 1:3; Leviticus 3:1-6; Leviticus 4:3,23-32; Leviticus 5:15-18; Leviticus 6:6; Leviticus 9:2-3; Ezekiel 43:22-25; Ezekiel 45:18-23), without spot (Numbers 19:2; Numbers 28:3-11; Numbers 29:17,26), and undefiled (Psalm 119:1).

Used of Noah, this word means that he and his sons were the only pure Adamites left, and for such purity, they (regardless of their position in personal holiness) were all preserved in the ark.

Proofs that the Sons of God Were Angels:

Since the sons of God in Genesis 6 cannot be the sons of Seth or the offspring of godly men and ungodly women, they must be fallen angels. This is clear from many scriptures:

1. The expression “sons of God” is found only five times in the Old Testament and every time it is used of angels (Genesis 6:1-4; Job 1:6; Job 2:1; Job 38:7). It is indisputable that the passages in Job refer to angels. Daniel 3:25,28 calls an angel “the son of God.” Is it not possible then, that the sons of God of Genesis 6 could be angels?

2. Some translations (the Septuagint, Moffatt, and others) read, “angels of God” in Genesis 6:1-4, which is the only idea that harmonizes with this passage and many others.

3. Josephus says, “many angels of God accompanied with women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength … these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call giants” (Antiquities, Book 1, 3:1). Again he says, “There were till then left the race of giants, who had bodies so large, and countenances so entirely different from other men, that they were surprising to the sight, and terrible to the hearing. The bones of these men are still shown to this very day” (Antiquities, Book 5, 2:3).

4. The Ante-Nicene Fathers also refer to angels as falling “into impure love of virgins and were subjugated by the flesh. Of these lovers of virgins, therefore, were begotten those who are called giants” (vol. 2, p. 142; vol. 8, p. 85, 273). Justyn Martyr (A.D. 110-165) says, “But the angels transgressed … were captivated by love of women, and begat children” (vol. 2, p. 190). Methodius (A.D. 260-312) says, “the devil was insolent … as also those (angels) who were enamoured of fleshly charms, and had illicit intercourse with the daughters of men” (vol. 6, p. 370).

5. Both testaments teach that some angels committed sexual sins and lived contrary to nature. Genesis 6:1-4 gives the history of such sinning. 2 Peter 2:4-5 says that angels sinned before the flood and were cast down to hell to be reserved until judgment. It doesn’t reveal the sin as fornication, but Jude 1:6-7 does, saying, “the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner (as did the angels), giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” If Sodom, Gomorrah, and other cities lived contrary to nature and committed fornication, as the angels did, then it is clear that the sin of angels was fornication.

According to Genesis 6, this sexual sin was committed with “daughters of men.” See notes on 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6-7.

6. The one scripture used to teach that angels are sexless (Matthew 22:30) doesn’t say they are. It states that “in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.” The purpose of this verse is to show that resurrected men and women do not marry to keep their kind in existence. In the resurrected state they live forever, but not as sexless beings. The Bible teaches that every person will continue bodily as he was born, throughout eternity.

Paul said that everyone will have his own body in the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:35-38). Both males and females will be resurrected as such, though their bodies will be changed from mortality to immortality (1 Cor. 15:35-54). There is nothing in the resurrection to uncreate men and women. Christ remained a man after His resurrection and so will all other males.

Throughout Scripture, angels are spoken of as men. No female angels are on record. It is logical to say then that the female was created specifically to keep the human race in existence; and that all angels were created males, inasmuch as their kind exists without reproduction. Angels were created innumerable to start with (Hebrews 12:22), whereas humanity began with one pair, Adam and Eve, who were commanded to reproduce and make multitudes. That angels have tangible spirit bodies, appear as men, and perform acts surpassing those of the human male is clear from many passages. See note, Hebrews 13:2.

When Jude states that some angels “kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation” (Jude 1:6), he makes it understandable how a sexual sin could be accomplished by them. The Greek word for “habitation” is oiketerion (NT:3613). It is used only twice in Scripture: of the bodies of men being changed to spiritual bodies (2 Cor. 5:2), and the angels having a bodily change, or at least a lowering of themselves in some way (Jude 1:6-7). Thus, the New Testament helps explain the history of the Old Testament

7. There are two classes of fallen angels-those loose with Satan who will be cast down to earth during the future tribulation (Rev. 12:7-12), and those who are now bound in hell for committing fornication (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6-7). Had the ones in hell not committed the additional sin of fornication, they would still be loose with the others to help Satan in the future. Their confinement proves they committed a sin besides that of original rebellion with Satan. That it was sexual sin is clear from 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6-7, which identifies this class of fallen angels as the sons of God of Genesis 6:1-4.

8. In 1 Peter 3:19-20 we see that Christ “went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing.” Who are these spirits in prison, if not the confined angels who at one time lived contrary to their nature-in sin with the daughters of men (Genesis 6:1-4)? We read “Who maketh his angels spirits” (Psalm 104:4; Hebrews 1:13-14).

If angels are spirits, we conclude that the imprisoned spirits Christ preached to were angels and the sons of God referred to in Genesis 6, especially since they “were disobedient … in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing.” The very purpose of Noah’s flood was to destroy the giant offspring of these angels known as the sons of God who “came in unto the daughters of men.” See Ten Proofs Spirits Are Angels.

The Purpose of Satan in Producing Giants:

It was the purpose of Satan and his fallen angels to corrupt the human race and thereby do away with pure Adamite stock through whom the Seed of the woman should come. This would avert their own doom and make it possible for Satan and his kingdom to keep control of the earth indefinitely.

It was said to Adam and Eve that the Seed of the woman would defeat Satan and restore man’s dominion (Genesis 3:15). The only way for Satan to avoid this predicted defeat was to corrupt the pure Adamite line so that the coming of the Seed of the woman into the world would be made impossible. This he tried to accomplish by sending fallen angels to marry the daughters of men (Genesis 6:1-4), thus producing the giant nations through them.

There are two episodes with fallen angels taught in Genesis 6:4. There were giants in the earth “in those days (before the flood), and also after that (after the flood), when the sons of God (fallen angels) came in unto the daughters of men (any daughters of men-Cain, Seth, and others), and they bare children to them (to the angels).”

Satan almost succeeded in his plan during the first episode, for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth; of all the multitudes Noah and his sons were the only pure Adamites left to be preserved by the ark (Genesis 6:8-13; 1 Peter 3:19-20). The main object of the flood was to do away with this Satanic corruption, destroy the giants, and preserve the pure Adamite line, thus guaranteeing of the coming of the Seed of the woman, as God planned.

Being defeated before the flood didn’t stop Satan from making a further attempt to prevent the coming of the Redeemer who would be his final downfall. It was now to his advantage that God had promised never to send another universal flood upon the earth. Satan, therefore, reasoned that he should make a second attempt to do away with the Adamite line. If he came within “eight souls” of doing it before the flood, his opportunities were now even greater with the promise that there would be no such flood. This is the reason the second group of fallen angels married the daughters of men. Again the unions produced giants whose races occupied the land of promise-where the Seed should be born in advance of Abraham. Limited by His promise of no flood, God had to destroy the giants another way.

This explains why He commanded Israel to kill every one of them, even to the last man, woman, and child. It also explains why He destroyed all the men, women and children besides Noah and his family, at the time of the flood it answers the skeptics’ question regarding why children were taken away with adults in the flood. God had to end this corruption entirely to fulfill His eternal plan and give the world its promised Redeemer. The Redeemer has come now, so Satan is reserving his forces for a last stand at the second coming of Christ.

Thus, it is clear from Scripture that there were giants in the earth both before and after the flood and that they came from a union of fallen angels and the daughters of men.
The days of Noah before the flood. There were giants “in those days” and “also after that,” i.e., after the flood.

This verse reveals three facts:

1. Fallen angels married earthly women twice-before and after Noah’s flood

2. Both times these angels fathered children by the women.
3. All those children were giants. Not the daughters of Cain as supposed, for no daughters of Cain, could be on this side of the flood. They were all killed by the flood (Genesis 6:18; Genesis 7:7; Genesis 8:18; Genesis 9:1; 1 Peter 3:20).

Women had children by both fallen angels and men. It wasn’t necessary to emphasize children by men, but having children by angels was significant (Genesis 6:4; Jude 1:6-7). Because of this sin “it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth” (Genesis 6:1-6).

Hebrew: shem (OT:8034), men of name, honor, and authority (Numbers 16:2; Ezekiel 16:14-15; Ezekiel 34:29; Ezekiel 39:13; Daniel 9:15). The Giants became the heroes of Greek mythology as the Biblical truth became corrupted by transmission. See Giants and the Sons of God.
Genesis 6:5

Divine inspection and dissatisfaction. God learns true conditions the same as man (Genesis 6:5-6; Genesis 7:1; Genesis 11:5; Genesis 18:21; Genesis 22:12; Genesis 29:31; Exodus 3:4; Deut. 32:19; 2 Kings 14:26; 2 Chron. 12:7; Isaiah 59:15-16; Jonah 3:10). Compare the same statements regarding men in Genesis 3:6; Genesis 8:8; and Genesis 37:14.
Hebrew: ra (OT:7451), bad, evil, wicked (Genesis 6:5; Genesis 39:9; Deut. 13:11; Deut. 17:2; Judges 20:3,12).
Hebrew: rab (OT:7227), abundant, full, exceedingly (cp. Genesis 13:16; Genesis 18:20; 1 Samuel 12:17).
Hebrew: yetser (OT:3336), concept, purpose, desire (Genesis 8:21; Deut. 31:21).
Genesis 6:6
Hebrew: nacham (OT:5162), to sigh, breathe heavily and be sorry in the literal sense (Exodus 32:14; Judges 2:18; 1 Samuel 15:35; 2 Samuel 24:16; Psalm 106:45).

God is capable of all feelings, emotions, and right desires, as we are. See note, John 4:24.
Genesis 6:7
The 6th prophecy in Genesis (Genesis 6:7, fulfilled). Next, Genesis 6:13. This is the first prophecy of the flood.
The divine purpose stated. God now decided to destroy what He had created (Romans 9:11-33).
Genesis 6:8
Hebrew: chen (OT:2580), favor, grace. Translated grace 38 times in the Old Testament, proving that grace is not just a New Testament doctrine. Only the fullness of grace came by Christ (John 1:17; 1 Peter 1:10-12). See Genesis 19:19; Exodus 33:12-17; Exodus 34:9; Psalm 84:11; Proverbs 3:34; Jeremiah 31:2; Zech. 12:10.
Genesis 6:9

—Dake’s Topics







Thanks for sharing Preston Bailey’s response with us.  It was EXCELLENT!!!He covered all the points that came to my mind and I appreciate VERY much that he took the time to address these issues.   Wouldn’t it be nice if all of my memories leading up to the Nephilim was just a deception and all I had to do was just deny my memories and then I would be free?!!!   Think about it, these memories were buried for close to 50 years and think of the hell we’ve been through just getting out of the cult and along come these guys saying I would be free if I only realized I was deceived about being a Nephilim mother. I guess that also means I would have to believe that my life leading up to the birth of the sons was also just an illusion.   Unfortunately, they don’t realize that I spent over 50 years trying to deny this reality and now it is time to own up, take responsibility!!   I just don’t understand how they can so calmly and almost callously brush away the horror of the last 61 years of my life and say it is all a deception.  Do you think if I could dis-believe my life then I would no longer deal with major PTSD and I would no longer have horrific body memories?  I don’t think so…I’ve been there and done that…IT’S CALLED DISSOCIATION!!!!!  Dissociation is no longer working so that means I can no longer live in denial about what I experienced!!

Constantina Bontrager



Yes; I have finally started speaking out about the truth of what I know about this ministry. My testimony that by their own words is evidence. I have a lot to say about the deception going on in this ministry that unless you conform or submit to their version of the truth; you cannot be helped and they just abandon you, until you “get your mind right” which means you turn away from your truth to be a part of Joe’s ministry.

I was looking for help from my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ; with the promise of support by Joe Jordan. Instead of support; I was negated and cast into outer darkness or solitary confinement however you want to look at it; this was supposed to help me come around to his way of thinking. I was promised a conference call with those who had ridiculed me publicly; to make my statement of truth, but Joe told me “they” weren’t ready yet. These witnesses of his had to “get ready” to hear the truth from a fellow Christian sister about events that took place in my home that not only I but also my husband were witness to? Since the conference call wasn’t going to happen I offered Joe a conference call with me and my husband so Joe would have all the “witness testimony” to a big story he was producing to be released to the public. Joe says he is a researcher and an investigator, but he didn’t want to investigate or research what my husband and I had to say? Why? I was not given a response and he didn’t take us up on it.

Two people were allowed to make allegations against me in a public interview but I wasn’t asked by anyone if it was acceptable to me to have that air publicly. These two people insinuated that when one of them needed help I put on a tin foil hat! Yes; that’s right on a very popular internet radio show I was ridiculed, laughed at and accused of wearing a tin foil hat. Did Joe bother to ask me before the episode aired if I indeed was wearing a tin foil hat? No. He let the episode air and it is still available on the internet. When I called him with my objections he promised a conference call that would be recorded to set the record straight. Has that happened yet? No; and the episode I speak of aired November 22, 2010.

I was waiting patiently for the “other parties” to get ready. Since when do people have to get ready to hear the truth? When the truth doesn’t suit your agenda perhaps? It didn’t stop there. Soon after when I would post a status update on FaceBook; Joe would leave the comment, “Close the doors, Dori”. The second time he said that on my FaceBook; “Close the doors, Dori”, I wrote to Joe and asked him to please use a different phrase or words if he wanted to get a point across to me. You see; in my past, I had been victimized by men who essentially told me things like; “Lay by your dish”, “Get in your box” and to my brain “Close the doors, Dori” sounded like those phrases to me. That it took me years to heal from my trauma based abuse and what he was saying was “triggering” me. Combine the isolation, abandonment, public ridicule, refusals of help and suppression of the whole truth It felt like I was being plunged into some mind control programming once again; only this time it had a bright shiny Christian label on it so somehow that was supposed to make it okay. It was not okay. In fact, it was far from okay it made me ill. I recognize “red flags” when I see them; with discernment from the Holy Spirit, I was being shown how I was being manipulated by one of the very people who was supposed to be “counseling” me, helping me heal and get free as he claims. It was carrying me to a different type of bondage; the bondage of fear of posting on my own FaceBook, of writing about what happened to me when that radio show went public and talking about anything on the air of the radio show I was now co-hosting with Minister Fortson. I was afraid of upsetting Joe or one of his “people” who would then ridicule and attack me publicly once again.

I continued to write Joe to ask for that conference call with my “accusers” or the conference call with me and my husband to give Joe our testimony of events that took place in our home. Joe wasn’t interested in that, he wasn’t interested in getting to the truth, he was interested in somehow punishing me for being a co-host on Minister Fortson’s radio show.  The reason I felt this way is because one of Joe’s contemporaries; Frank Scarvada had publicly lambasted me for co-hosting a show with Dante in which the guest referenced the book of Enoch.  I was called a heretic and accused of cavorting with a “known adulterer” and did I know what I was doing? I referred Frank to Minister Fortson and take it up with him if he didn’t like the guest.

I contacted Joe again; “Joe when someone in your circle got herself into trouble on the air with her radio show she was dealt with privately but I get attacked publicly?” How is that fair?  Especially since it was me who went to Frank and Joe to help counsel this person so she wouldn’t lose her radio show for what happened on the air. People were sending me the MP3’s of the show and asking me to listen to them as they knew I was friends with this person. So; I privately went to my elder brothers in Christ to help her. They did not show me the same courtesy. Why? Because I was “bad”, I was not behaving myself so I got a public whipping.  Every dysfunctional family has a scapegoat, and here I was in the midst of this dysfunctional family and I was the scapegoat for them to air their doctrinal differences. They were using me as an “example” of what not to do if you want to stay in their good graces. They had turned me into a platform; their jumping-off place by which they would “show me” what happens when you cross them by being a co-host on a radio show they all hated.  So, I took it, suffering alone and in silence not wanting to make waves, not wanting to make trouble look what happened already and I wasn’t even trying to make trouble, I was trying to live my Christian walk according to the lesson plan God had laid out for me. I believed that Christian brothers and sisters would never treat one another this way.  Except this was happening and they were treating me like a valueless piece of flesh.  It all felt like the way I had been treated by my abusers, how can this be? These are men and women of God. It wasn’t over yet.

Next came the interview on The Omega Hour with Doug Riggs and the Nephilim Mothers as they are called. The fear of losing every friend I had left overwhelmed me as I prayed to God for guidance on whether to co-host this show or not. I had heard them interviewed before and the one thing I knew for certain beyond the shadow of a doubt; something horrible had happened to them, and they were witnesses giving their testimony as evidence. Except, Joe Jordan says their testimony is a delusion. Here is where my brain really began to twist and turn to wrap my head around this “truth according to Joe”. His website and his ministry are based on “witness testimony as evidence that UFO abductions are real”. He brings these witnesses on stage at his conferences and says; “Here is your evidence” as they come up on stage one by one. So Doug Riggs brings some witnesses on The Omega Hour as evidence that a breeding program is in place and has been in place for years” these women’s testimonies are the evidence–right? Well at first it would seem that is the way it is; witness testimony is evidence according to Joe Jordan and CE4 Research. Except for the testimony of these women; their testimony is not evidence because what they experienced was “visionary” a delusion and deception from the enemy. Excuse me; what?

Well if the wheels just fell off your wagon after reading this; this is where it careened off a cliff for me. Things happened to me during my life and I am or was; one of Joe Jordan’s testimonies and by sharing my story on the air with Joe so then all things being equal here wouldn’t Doug Riggs testimonies be evidence that the breeding program is real? No, not according to Joe. That’s when the warrior in me came back to life! Don’t you negate these women’s personal history by saying that they are delusional. How dare you tarnish their experience because it doesn’t fit into your twisted paradigm. Are witness testimonies evidence or not? Because if these women’s testimonies aren’t real, then I have a big, big news flash; then neither are your witness testimonies. Why? Because you can’t have it both ways. You cannot have what you want to be real to further your name and your ministry. Just because you say so is not a truth that stands up to scripture. “and they overcame him by the blood of the lamb, the word of their testimony, and loved not their lives unto death “ Revelation 11:12″ Anyone getting a headache yet?

God is not the author of confusion and here we have more than confusion. We have the mystery of iniquity at work; because Joe is saying that what these women went through isn’t real. Joe apparently refutes Revelation 11:12, Genesis 6, Matthew 24, and Daniel 2:43 “they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men but they shall not cleave one to another. From what I understand the word “cleave” in the bible refers to marriage. When the sons of God came unto the daughters of men they took wives of whom they chose” what Daniel sees in the future is that the seed mingling will be going on, but they will not “marry” as they did in Genesis 6.

But; you see the Lord wastes nothing; being cast off by them, the Lord helped me find my voice and that it was time to speak up about the victimization I experienced while under the “care” of Joe Jordan’s ministry. I cried out to him for “help” many times as he allowed others of “his testimonies” speak out against me and I was not given the opportunity to stand up for myself to tell my part of this testimony that I was a witness to! I am a witness, and my mouth was sealed shut. Apparently, the evidence I had to contribute was suppressed because it didn’t fit into his agenda. I had apparently become a pesky fly in his ointment because I wanted all the truth to be told! I was denied and shunned and they said they were waiting for me to come around (to their way of thinking) I brought up scripture and was told that scripture doesn’t mean what it says; it means this interpretation or that interpretation but it’s not literal. I take my Bible literally; God doesn’t need help from men to defend His word, He is God and He will bring forth witnesses to his Word so that men will need to defend themselves from their own errant interpretations.


Dori Lynn


To Be or Not To Be – That is The Question?

By David Ruffino


When it comes down to any subject under the sun the question should always be, “how does it mesh with Biblical scripture?” I am one of those staunch believers in Yeshua who think that the Bible has the answers for every application, not only during the period when it was penned by so many authors under the inspiration of the Ruach Ha Kodesh; but for all time, and especially today.

I’m also one of those nagging people who think that when Yeshua walked on this earth, he said what he meant and meant what he said. Call me a fundamentalist if you like, and you will be right because I take Yeshua and what He said VERY SERIOUSLY!

Over the past two or so years there has been a schism in the Christian UFO Research Realm. This should come as no surprise because people in our realm, especially those of us who are born again, Bible believing followers of Yahweh Yeshua have chosen to build our house on the rock of Yahweh’s Word; and Satan and his minions don’t like us. Furthermore, we are involved in exposing one of the biggest (shall I say cosmic in scale) deceptions that he is using to deceive this world; and almost everyone is falling for it. The enemy isn’t too interested in someone who sits in a pew and bobs his/her head up and down at every word of the pastor. No, he’s going to go after those who are a fly in his proverbial ointment; those who test every spirit; and those who search the scriptures for the validity of every statement, just like the Berean’s did.

There are two factors that are being promoted by those who want to cause division. Those who harp on these two factors want to be a “top dog” in the Christian UFO Research Realm, and they’re willing to do whatever they have to do to ruin the ministries and reputations of honest hard-working researchers who just want to seek Yahweh for His truth and promote that truth. I don’t believe that our detractors are motivated by godly motives, although they claim that this is their motivation; but I believe (knowing their character traits) that these people; Guy Malone, Nicole Malone (Paradox Brown), Joseph Jordan, et. al; their prime motivation is fame and notoriety. I also believe (again judging by their bad fruit) that they will step on any toes, ride the shirt tails of others, and try to crush without mercy or love, anyone who gets in their way or challenges their belief system.

The two main points of contention (although there are many others) have to do with some of the players in the UFO (and prophetic) realm and what their mode of operation is. In essence, the big questions are:

  1. Did the Nephilim mentioned in Genesis chapter six reappear after the flood and have they been with us throughout history and especially today?
  2. Is the act of alien abduction (abduction by fallen angelic beings) spiritual, physical or both.

Now, I’m not going to go into these things too much because I’ve explained my view in my book Unholy Communion – “The Alien Abduction Phenomena – Where it Originates, and Hot It Stops.” I’ve also gone into this subject in-depth at my website; Second, at the bottom of this page are links to others who have joined forces to counter the heresy and actions of the individuals mentioned above; and they have explained it in their own words, with many Bible scriptures and with just plain common sense; rightly dividing the truth, as we’re told to do in scripture.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

In recent years people like Joe Jordan have contended that the alien abduction event is strictly spiritual or psychic and I have not argued with him because in some cases there appears to be only a spiritual component. One of Joe’s cases, where a man never left his girlfriend’s side while he claimed to have been abducted bears out Joe’s assertion. Other cases bear out the undeniable fact that this phenomena starts out spiritual, becomes all too physical and then disappears back into the spiritual realm again. So my stance has always been to agree to disagree with Joe about this; but it appears that Joe, and his disciples Guy and Nicole (Paradox) Malone have gone on a witch hunt wherewith they feel it necessary to vilify those who see any sort of physical component to the alien abduction phenomenon.

Over the past few years I always though it hypocritical that Joe Jordan, a man who has always touted that, “the proof is in the testimonies,” lives by that notion until someone says that they believe their abduction event was physical in nature. Having been in his company on several occasions I have seen him defensively rise to a sharp and sarcastic anger when presented with a case that challenges his “spiritual only,” theory. I have been at the receiving end of that anger and I can attest that it is NOT a righteous anger, but an anger that someone gets when they are convicted of a wrong and they do not want to admit that they are wrong. This is not a godly behavior.

Recently, in an effort to ramp up their attack against me and others who believe in the physicality of the alien abduction event, Joe, Guy Malone and Nicole Malone have mounted a FaceBook campaign where they have chosen to malign us. They have recruited young and/or baby Christians in their holy war. People that we have never met and who do not know what we believe have begun to vilify us on FaceBook and this has also spilled over into the YouTube community. Myself, having come from Jewish heritage know all too well what happens when people start a vilification campaign and it is left unchecked. Up to and including the 20th Century we were blamed for every ill of society, and we have paid dearly with our spilled blood and our lives. In most cases the hatred started by whispers and murmurs that started like, “do you know what those Jews believe,” and thus the purges, pogroms and inquisitions started. The murmurings of Joe, Guy, Nicole and their disciples of hate have already taken off like wildfires and like I said, people who have never met us, talked to us or even read our work seriously have called us heretics and false teachers and false prophets because the Florida Three have not agreed to disagree about the origins of alien abduction and the reality of modern day Nephilim.

The crux of the matter is found in the book of Genesis, chapter six; where Yahweh is telling us that there was a fallen angelic incursion into the history of mankind that changed mankind forever:

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

Our detractors hold to the notion that the “and also after that” could mean one or two things. According to them, it could mean that there was a second incursion before the flood and they also adhere to the belief that any giants that existed after the flood were just “totally human people with a gigantism DNA defect that can be found amongst people in our modern society.” Granted, there are giant people today, and they are human through and through, but their condition is hormonal in nature where their bodies constantly produce human growth hormones; and their conditions also cause them to be weak and frail, hardly the “mighty men of old and men of renown” that are cited in Genesis chapter six. The giants mentioned in the Bible as having existed after the flood were strong warrior types, like Goliath and his brothers. These were not mere humans with DNA defects.

The three persons, who hail themselves as the ultimate knowledge in all things relating to the alien abduction phenomena have denied some very basic and simple scriptures, or they have twisted them to fit their own agenda. Take for instance the report of the twelve spies who were sent out by Yehoshua to reconnoiter the land of Canaan. Ten of them came back from their mission in utter fear, stating that the Nephilim dwelled in the land. They reported that they (the spies) appeared as grasshoppers in stature next to the inhabitants of Canaan. There were whole cities of giants, not just a few scattered to and fro.

David went up against Goliath, whom Joe’s crowd would say was just a human suffering from gigantism. They neglect to see however that David brought extra stones with him and that was because Goliath had brothers, and the scripture tends to assert that they were giants too. As far as I can ascertain, gigantism doesn’t affect multiple members of a household or multiple siblings. Furthermore, Jordan and his crew fail to explain scripturally some tribes mentioned as living in the land of Canaan where the the whole tribe was equated as consisting of giants (Nephilim). We’re told in the New Testament that women should have a male spiritual covering over them on account of the angels. That could only mean that the fallen angels were still a serious concern around the time that the Epistles were written.

And finally and perhaps most importantly, we have the testimony of Yeshua who said that upon his return it would be like it was during the days of Noah. Joe and his crowd assert that it will be just like life has always been, that people would marry and be given in marriage and that they will be wicked. Well first off, let’s look at this. These activities were also happening at the same time that Yeshua was preaching his Matthew 24 message so in essence things were the same then as they were during Noah’s time so why would Yeshua even accentuate the importance of Noah’s time with Yeshua’s return if everything was to be status quo? No, there has to be something strangely different happening when he will return and the only difference is that there will be a fallen angelic intrusion into our modern society and there will be Nephilim.

And lest we not forget that Noah’s time reach well into the post flood era. Noah lived long enough to have communion with Abraham so it is entirely possible that in Noah’s post flood days that more incursions of fallen angels with human females producing the Nephilim that infested Canaan up until Yahweh brought the Israeli armies to the land to eradicate them.

Also, this would help to explain why a God of love would command Yehoshua and his armies to go into certain cities to slay every man, woman, child and animal in those cities. The only good reason would be that there were Nephilim there and that the fallen angels had corrupted the genetic pools of all of the persons in those cities. There is also new evidence appearing that shows that the Cities of The Plain, like Sodom and Gomorrah, had ties with Nephilim populations. Notice how the population of Sodom turned down Lot’s offer of his maiden daughters and demanded to have sexual relations with Yahweh’s holy angels; many scholars thinking that one of those angels was actually a preincarnate theophany of Yeshua himself. They knew that Lot’s visitors were angels and they knew what resulted in the union between human females and angels; and they knew it to be a perversion; the Cities of The Plain were highly into perversion.

Let’s face it, placing Nephilim after the flood explains many of Yahweh’s actions that without this notion make Yahweh out to be a wicked and cruel taskmaster with a thirst for blood; but placing the Nephilim into the mix causes one to realize that Yahweh did what he did to do away with a corrupted genetic bloodline; one that was again half angelic and half human, namely Nephilim. It is also important to remember that Elohim promised a Mashiach through the human bloodline and what would serve Satan’s purposes better than to corrupt the human gene pool in an attempt to corrupt the Messianic line too. The implications of such a thing is scary to say the least.

Recently a video has surfaced on YouTube that is chock full of false witness. In that video, the speakers Joe Jordan and Guy Malone assert that me and my associates believe that there are real Nephilim in our current society and world. We do hold to that belief and we believe that there is enough evidence scripturally to prove that point. I encourage any of you to read my website, or Jim Wilhelmsen’s website, or to read the works of Dante Fortson and Wilhelmsen’s “Beyond Science Fiction” book to get more clarity. These resources can show you the scriptures that would take up too much room in this letter, which started out to be a simple letter and has gotten longer than I anticipated.

As is evidenced in the aforementioned video, it is the assertion of the Florida Three and their disciples that we hold to some sort of strange doctrine that states that we feel that certain people are Nephilim, and since they are not totally human they are beyond the salvation of Yeshua Ha Mashiach. This is hogwash in its highest degree. We take quite seriously the scripture where Yeshua tells us to preach the His Gospel to ALL CREATURES. There is a reason why Yeshua used the word creatures. He could have said “all men,” but he didn’t. The whole reason why Yeshua said, “all creatures,” is because in our latter days the Nephilim would be so similar and so undistinguishable from genuine human beings that He didn’t want us to make a differentiation between what is human and what isn’t human, lest we make an error and dismiss a wrong person as being a Nephilim. I believe emphatically that we are to plant the seeds and let Yahweh water and tend the garden. So I categorically deny the false witness of Jordan and the Malone’s and call them for what they are; liars and deceivers and of course I call on them to recant what they have said but I firmly believe I will see swine flying past my front window before that happens.

In recent days Nicole Malone (Paradox Brown) who lives up to her name, almost prophetically, (a paradox for sure) has started a website about Nephilim Hybrids. In typical Nicole fashion, she has mixed psychobabble with eclectic reasoning. One “for instance,” is she makes the solid claim that there are no modern day Nephilim; but on the same page, in an attempt to slam her adversaries, she makes the claim that if a person is a Nephilim, or a partial Nephilim, they are covered under the provision of Yahweh’s saving grace through the shed blood of Yeshua Ha Mashiach. Well, you can’t have it both ways; either there are modern Nephilim or there aren’t modern Nephilim.

What is evident in the Florida Three is that they have no experience or education in quoting scripture or writing papers about anything that has to deal with teaching doctrine or righteousness. They consist of Guy, a man who will twist scripture to endorse what he believes and his questionable endeavors; Nicole who is barely four years old in Yeshua, has never been properly discipled in the Faith and who spurns correction of any sort; and there is Joe, whose own words speak that he doesn’t know scripture in regard to the subjects at hand:

“I’m not going to get into the scriptural aspect, I don’t know enough of it to address it that way..” [at point 9:27 in their video debunking us]

I think that I have stated my case quite clearly and succinctly. I encourage you, the reader, to examine further the pages that my esteemed associates have written in regard to this matter. Links to their pages are listed below. I bestow upon all of you blessings in the might and matchless name of Yeshua Ha Mashiach (Jesus Christ).

David Ruffino


(Don’t confuse with this website)


Jim Wilhelmsen


Nephilim hybrids. Com is a site addressing fears that do not exist. It is the result of a sincere care and sense of urgency that is an illusion without substance. Their doctrines have conclusions and accusations against many godly people that are false. I hope most of this was by accident because of youthful inexperience from a novice in the faith. Believing in and for the best here is my pleas to all behind

Nichole Malone states:

“The reason I have made is to let people who believe they are Nephilim know that they

  1.    Can be saved by Jesus Christ
  2.     are not Nephilim.

I have met abductees which either consider themselves ‘hybrids’ or ‘Nephilim’ and they need solid teaching to help them understand that they are people who can be saved.

What they have been encountering are teachings that both “modern Nephilim” exist who are human-looking and also that as such they cannot be saved.

If it wasn’t for the completely IRRESPONSIBLE teachings out there which leave these kids out to dry, this site wouldn’t be so necessary, but as things are, it is.

If you really care about reaching the lost with the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ, you would acknowledge, instead of ignoring, this very real existing problem.”


While it is commendable of you to be concerned about these people and you have a heart for them you have not taken the time to see if there was a real attack or denial by anyone to support your fears or concerns about these people. You have assumed that your doctrines right the wrongs that have never been committed.

What is irresponsible Nichole is your assumptions about people and doctrines you know nothing about and do not take the time to find out. Your concerns are mute and without proof that anyone has ever left anyone “out to dry”. You have demonized me and many others whose entire lives have been devoted to helping people. You are on a rabid crusade against people called of God and truths you do not understand. This is only going to leave you shipwrecked in your recent new faith. The Bible warns of letting a novice assume this kind of responsibility in administering the Word to others in a leadership position in the body of Christ.

“ Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.” 1 Tim 3:6

The accusation that any of us would ever exclude people who come to us for salvation based on our theological beliefs about the Nephilim is absurd.

This would be the evilest intolerant act for any believer in Christ to impose upon another person. From the people I am associated within the “Alien Abduction” counseling or those in the Satanic Ritual Abuse ministries, I know of no one who believes or would ever turn down an individual and exclude them or tell them they were excluded from salvation. This is false accusation to our ministries and personal character based on an uneducated assumption that if we believe Nephilim are here and we also believe there is no salvation for them, then we must turn some people down if they come to us saying they think they are Nephilim or having traits of this in their genetic makeup.

This is the main battle cry of Joe Jordan, Guy Malone and Nichole Malone and the few others on board with their agenda. This blanket statement makes us by the very doctrinal nature of their beliefs, demonized from any way of grace to agree to disagree. But that is the deception and the reason for their attacks on us. They feel justified to treat us like we are heretics. If we were actually doing this I would have to agree with them and their hostility toward us could be righteous indignation. But we are not doing this! This is an outright lie by ignorance or and an outright deception by them to promote themselves at our expense. At this time I really do not know.

The scriptures are self-explanatory on this issue in Genesis 3.

And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed;” Gen 3:15 NASV

There is a safety incorporated in this verse of scripture. God said he would put enmity between the offspring of the serpent which would most definitely include a Nephilim and human offspring. That is the safety net for us to deal with for every individual as an individual regardless of what they may think or say about themselves. There has been debate by some as to how much of a mix makes a person a hybrid or human, diluted strains (etc.). I say the verse is self-healing and self-explanatory. I certainly cannot answer or even try to answer that question but I don’t have to. That is God’s job, not mine and here is the Biblical proof of that…

Mark 16:15

“ And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature”. KJV

Now, why do you suppose the Lord Jesus said every creature and not every person? In the Greek, it means created thing not alien or Nephilim but it doesn’t have to. Now anyone knows the Lord is not expecting us to preach to animals or other objects of creation unless it was a sentient being that was in our midst looking and acting like us; but not of us Just as the entire book of Jude warns. Exactly what Paul wrote in Romans 8:38, 39.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any otherCREATURE, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.  KJV

The term means created thing with a sense of original creation or source. In most cases meaning Gods original source and object. This could leave one to think that it could only mean original creations by God as plants animals and humans. However in I Peter 2:13 the same word is used as “ordinance” and in context, the creation is a human source. So original source based on context determines God or another source. This is why the list Paul uses in Romans has creatures separated from the list of his creation and yet it is an obvious sentient intelligent being who’s source is outside of his creation. The implication of this word use supports the idea that there are outsourced creatures that will try to separate us from the Love of God outside the original source of Gods intended creation. This can be confirmed in Vine’s notes on Strong’s numbers published by Thomas-Nelson. The same Greek word is used here as for the ones we are to preach to. Are we to preach to demons? Of course not but to the Nephilim that will be in our midst yes! But, Certainly it will be to no avail, God will sort them out not us. We don’t hunt them down we don’t do anything but preach the gospel to them probably never knowing or being told who they are regardless of what we think they are. The orders are clear on that we are to exclude no one at any time from the offer of salvation. Applying this they will creep into the church and everywhere else but that is part of the end-time deception that must be played out according to God’s will and ultimate plan He is in control. This is what we are being warned of by Jude.

When an individual has ever come to me concerned with salvation and fearful they might be a Nephilim I always have good news for them. Some have felt these “aliens” told them they were being transformed into one or that they came from that genetic line. Across the board I tell them all, I have got good news for you. If you are concerned about this, if you care about your position with God then by the Word of God you cannot be one of them. You can’t because if you were, you would have a rabid hatred for anything about God, his people, his Word and certainly the last thing you would care about is any position you might have with the Lord. This is across the board and any of my colleagues agree and practice the same thing. None of us would ever try to play God and tell anyone they cannot be saved. This is either a subtle lie or an uneducated supposition on their part because they never bothered to ask us.

Time is Running Out!

We are approaching world events that will soon change our way of life and freedoms forever. At this most critical time in our history, the church should be rising to meet the challenge. Instead, they are in a comatose state without a clue.

We few who have been called as “Watchmen” are the worlds best and only hope for knowing what is coming around the corner. The greatest problem is that each of us has only a piece of this puzzle. God has arraigned this for many reasons.

If any one individual had the whole picture the problem of a sin nature could make it too easy for Satan and his minions to puff up the individual and become vain, self-sufficient and lose perspective of the horizontal relationship that is needed with others.

The Lord has caused the biggest challenge for all of us in that, if we really desire the whole truth in Him, if we really want to get the complete picture, we have to come together. This means we have to learn to really love one another in spite of differences. This is hard for many of us to do because we hold dearly to what we believe has been inspired knowledge from our Lord and we certainly do not want to compromise it. When revelations or doctrinal positions seem to conflict we recoil and get ready for battle instead of relaxing to consider the possibility that there may be compatibility instead of conflict. If we can let ourselves go and see the hand of the Lord upon others and ourselves many times things revealed that seem to conflict with one another actually can have an integration and harmony. We must be willing to respect the other and esteem them as family and listen without being threatened. If your piece is from the Lord why feel threatened? Have confidence in your relationship and remain open to your differing family members piece. Another part of the problem of infighting is we have been taught wrong within and from outside the Church.

Satan has given us subtle lies that even we as Christians or as Watchmen have succumb to. Debating in the minds of most Christians is the means of learning and growing in truth. It is the foundation of most apologetic ministries in dealing with the truth. While we are to contend the faith and stand for truth, debating is the method of the ungodly and unregenerate world not the behavior of we who are the bearers of the truth. This especially was never meant to be a method used within the household of God between people who are mutually led by the Holy Spirit of God. Dialog not debate is the method between brethren. Debating demands a winner and a loser. It creates an environment of hostility right from the start. In many cases, the better orator can win the dual at the cost of losing the truth or reflecting the Christ-like behavior. It is a lie from Satan and we have practiced this without question.

Some Christian ministries who’s ministries include the idea and practice of Apologetics act like gunslingers from the old west or popular in my cultural background, arm wrestling between bikers. Always dueling to establish themselves as a top dog.

A dialog is a method Paul used. In a dialog, there is no field of battle or an environment of hostility. I will exercise the freedom to express why I believe what I believe and then give the other the same respect and right. There is no winner or loser and prayerful thought can be made by the listeners and each other to verify or clarify an issue. This works however if you are in a personal relationship with the Lord and trust in His Holy Spirit to conclude truth in others. The scriptures make this quite obvious here.

If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, 5 and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. “1 Tim 6:3-6

In reversing this text when you see these fruits between brethren the above is what is happening by attitude and outlook either intended or by a lack of knowledge. In this case, to some degree, we have all been duped by a wrong approach to matters.

I urge all of us in both camps that in these last days and what is coming around the corner please if you are one of the very few called to be a watchman in these last hours, we need to band together as a family against the real enemy and not against ourselves. Satan is only laughing at us because we become reduced in power divided and wasting precious time instead of being united and redeeming the time against him.

Please pray and consider this plea to repent and reconcile with the Lord and with each other. For some who would just mock this consider this next text seriously

The sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgment; for others, their sins follow after. Likewise also, deeds that are good are quite evident, and those which are otherwise cannot be concealed.” 1 Tim 5:24-25

May we all get past this foolishness and get ready to kick some demonic behind!

Sincerely In His Service, Jim Wilhelmsen


Dr. Preston Bailey Responds to Joe Jordan, Guy Malone and Mike Tatar Re: Nephilim Hybrids



I have a new person now almost every week who has SRA/DID and testify about Nephilim, hybrids and being abducted. I come at each case as a skeptic and they all have the same characteristics. None of them know each other. They are often from different states or different countries.

I never “lead the witness” because when I was Chairman of the Governors Task Force on Child Abuse, I was able to discern when a counselor or psychologist made a “leading” statement to a child who was abused. I have even counseled some from many years ago who talked about “Nephilim” before any recent modern books were written on it and before any major discussion on the subject in Christendom which is somewhat popular at this time.

Guy Malone, Joe Jordan, and Mike Tatar, Jr) says this is related to just “giantism” as a genetic issue is ridiculous and is an “assumption” in itself. Numerous Bible scholars also relate Genesis 6 to Nephilim as real and that they were giants caused by a union of fallen angels and human women. The list is too numerous to mention here. The Brown-Driver-Briggs lexicon gives the meaning of the word “Nephilim (Hebrew) as “giants” but does not imply that this union was just a genetic anomaly.

Most of these people (counselees) do not know Hebrew or exegesis based on Genesis 6 and Nephilim. One of the three men in the video said if a person he is counseling still believes that she is related to the hybrid or breeding program, then he cannot help them.” He went on to say that “it is the entities that convince their victims that hybrid breeding is real and if the layer is pulled back, they can realize they have been deceived.”This is a horrible assumption and pre-supposition in counseling. “If you do not believe what I expect you to believe then you are deceived and I cannot help you!”Any counselor with that belief would be kicked out of any counseling program. I taught a class in counseling at Stanford University and I would give them an F for the course if they had that unhealthy pre-supposition about the person in counseling people that have been traumatized. I have trained hundreds of counselors in SRA/DID and these are statements of rookies in SRA/DID counseling.

The role of any counselor is not to convince the person they are counseling to “believe” any pre-supposition whether it is related to Nephilim or not related to Nephilim. The role of the counselor is to mainly listen and help the person process their “pain” and teach skills to help them cope better with the problems in life. Only Jesus is the Great Physician. Jesus never compelled or forced anyone to believe anything. He listened to them and guided them to the truth through a series of questions to get them to think for themselves and parables (illustrations) of spiritual truths.

The three men said“We do not believe there are modern Nephilim today! We believe there is a secular deception of hybridization that is happening and women are shown a baby. We also believe there is sort of a Christian theological deception making people believe that Matthew 24:37 that says, “As it was in the days of Noah so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. NIV” is referring to Nephilim from Genesis 6. We believe that they (Christian counselors) are creating a belief system that it is happening today.”

These three men are trying to pressure the people they counsel to “believe” their view as well or they tell them they cannot help them. I have counseled thousands of people and never told them “I cannot help you!”

These three men are entitled to “believe” what they want to about Genesis 6 and Matthew 24:37 and they are also entitled to be wrong. The traditional Jewish view of Genesis 6 is that the fathers of the Nephilim (sons of God) were the Grigori or the fallen angels which some refer to as “Watchers.” This is also found in the Book of Enoch and the Book of Jubilees. Many ancient civilizations describe the same event based on their culture. Look at Greek and Roman mythology. Zeus leaves his abode in Mt. Olympus and goes to earth and mates with women. Different “demi-gods”, hybrids between a god and human women, or Nephilim were born to different women. Other historical and exegetical substantiations for the belief that Nephilim of Genesis 6 and are Matthew 24:37 relate to fallen angels mating with human women are too numerous to mention here since whole books have been written on the subject.

The speakers continued and said, “There are Christians who believe that these Nephilim, half-breed people, cannot be saved so they don’t bother preaching the Gospel to them.” He compared them to people who believe they are vampires. He goes on to say that “This is more than a deception. It is a belief system where some Christians think there are some people who are not worth preaching the Gospel to. It is creating a sub-category who believe the Gospel cannot apply to them. This is going to mess up Christianity and MUFON studies for quite some time. We believe this is an absolute heresy.”

I was told by one of the leaders of the largest evangelism department in the world that he wrote about in his book, that I was one of the most evangelistic people he ever met. I have personally led thousands to Christ many on a one by one basis. But there are some people who will not be saved. Christianity is divided up into two major schools: Arminianism and Calvinism. Whole Christian denominations are created around each of these two separate views. So if you ask “CHRISTIANS” from either theological view, they will give you a different list of “who cannot be saved.” I heard a Roman Catholic priest teaching catechism and he said, “The plan of salvation of Roman Catholics is not the plan of salvation of the Protestants.”

I doubt that a majority of Christian pastors in the world would agree with these three men (Guy Malone, Joe Jordan and Mike Tatar, Jr) that Nephilim in Genesis 6 if it is a union of fallen angels and human women, could be saved. Bringing up people who believe they are vampires has nothing to do with the subject. There are people who have many different false beliefs on every subject in the world. But this is irrelevant to the subject and implying those who believe in Nephilim today are crazy like people who believe they are vampires. That is more of an emotional, irrelevant, and illogical comment. I met a man who believed he was not born but fell out of a tree and came into existence but I have not applied it to a discussion related to these three men.

The other speaker goes on and talks about the “serpent seed” which he says is not in any texts, the Septuagint, or Masoretic texts.

The speaker brings in this doctrine of “serpent seed” that is not related to Nephilim at all and is considered false doctrine by Protestant denominations. Again I wonder the motives of these three speakers for bringing unrelated issues in this important subject related to these last days.

A member of the audience brought up Daniel 2:43 and one of the speakers said that verse actually teaches that hybridization will be attempted but will not work. So he says this goes against the argument of hybridization today. “It will not adhere. It will not work!”

The question from the audience was excellent and I did not think the speakers gave an adequate answer. The Book of Revelation is filled with evil entities which are clearly more than just demons such as those mentioned in Revelation 9.

The other speaker said, “Let’s take for granted that the hybridization really isn’t happening. OK!

Here he is clearly stating an assumption which is the thrust of his pitiful argument related to Nephilim and it is fine for him to make assumptions but if people who believe Nephilim are for today as an assumption then it is wrong. See his opening statements!

He continues, “What is the effect just by saying something. It is a powerful tool that this entity is using.” Then he asked how many of the women in the audience were mothers and how strong it is that affects you. The enemy knows this also and he can give you this deception. OK!  They can make you believe you have been impregnated and been given a child and they snatched it from you and they bring it up and show it to you later. You need to love this. We can’t! So it can survive. That deception is so powerful, it doesn’t even need to be real. They will have you hooked. It is a powerful tool they are using and it doesn’t even need to be real. But it is evasive enough so they believe it is real. Once the Holy Spirit working with these women can show they have just been deceived, then they are on the road to deliverance and freedom of this experience.”  

The speakers are simply using an emotional argument related to mothers and not using a logical argument. I have started several support groups for women who were abused and those raped. All of these women will testify that their experiences were very traumatic. Some of them even conceived and raised the children as a result of the rape. But these women did not need “deliverance” as the speaker said. Most “Deliverance Ministries” have no clue what to do with these women abused by these evil entities. These women need help to reframe the trauma they experienced in a way that helps them go on with their lives in a healthy manner by renewing their minds and learning to resist evil effectively and find healing from the Great Physician. This was the mission statement of Christ on earth:

Luke 4:18-19 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, 19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” NIV

When a woman is raped, she does not have “freedom” from the experience because she will always remember it. But a Christian counselor helps the woman find victory over this traumatic experience and see things from God’s perception, like what happened to Job.

The other speaker said, “I believe what women have had is visionary. The experience is real but it is a visionary type of thing. (The counselor) deceives you from the start and tells you you are a Nephilim or an alien hybrid. The entities you are dealing with are a liar from the beginning.  Unless it glorifies the Lord Jesus Christ and is in full accordance with the Word of God as written, then there is deception involved always.”

I agree that demons, Nephilim, hybrids, or any evil entity is a liar and deceives. But if this traumatic experience that thousands of women from all over the world (are reporting) is just a “visionary” experience, then what are the demons, or whatever they think this is, “What are they trying to do?” If these three men are right and these are just demons/fallen angels, then why would they spend so much effort to convince these women they had a Nephilim child if it was not true? What would be the point? That sure is making a lot of effort to deceive a woman that fallen angels/demons have raped her and produced an offspring.

Then according to these three speakers,”They can make you believe you have been impregnated and been given a child and they snatched it from you and they bring it up and show it to you later and say, “You need to love this. We can’t!”Then they take the child away and the woman never sees it again.They say this is all “visionary.” Why go to all this effort? Holding a baby in your arms is not a “visionary” event. Visionary means, “seeing visions, something unreal or imaginary.” A vision is what you think you see with the emphasis on SEE. Holding a baby in your arms is not a vision. It is an experience you touch and feel. People with DID may at times have “visions” or “hallucinations.” It is something they see visually- not touch. Holding a baby in your arms is not a “vision”, “hallucination,” or “imaginary experience” for any mother. It is flesh and blood in the mother’s hands and a different part of the brain is affected than one has with a “hallucination.” I attended Harvard Medical School and studied DID under the man who invented the term “Dissociative Identity Disorder” and was on the American Psychiatric Association board who brought this new term into use in America. I also studied under the expert on the brain, Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk and he will tell you that a different part of the brain would have been affected besides the “visual cortex” if a baby was placed in her arms.

I have six sisters. 1 in 3 females is sexually assaulted before the age of 18 in the US. I would hate to tell my two sisters who were raped that it was a “visionary” event that happened to them. When I counsel, I “implant” no ideas of them being raped by demons, Nephilim, fallen angels, hybrids, entities, or evil people. I listen to their stories without judging them with grace in my heart and a Bible in one hand and a pen in the other hand to simply record what they tell me. I pray with them and ask Jesus Christ to reveal the truth of the experience to them. I am not the Holy Spirit even though many pastors think they are. I have been counseling people with DID since 1984 so I have a lot of experience. But I have discovered that each person’s experience is different so I mainly listen and ask questions. The last thing on earth I would ever want to tell a woman or realize is that she was raped by an evil entity and has produced a Nephilim.

One thing I would never have the audacity or heartless gall to do is to get in front of a group of people and say, “Sorry ladies. This is all visionary. Just agree with me or I cannot help you anymore!” like these three men. I could not do that because I have been a minister for 38 years and I am called by God to minister and not be mean and cruel!

Preston Bailey, PhD., D.Min.





Dear Rev. David Ruffino,

We rely on Biblical reference as much as possible. Where the Bible is silent we caveat our words. The Bible paints a picture of angels actually “physically” entering in (restricting themselves to?) our reality. We know they are physical (3.5 dimensions as we) because they assaulted women, took Abraham by the hand, ingested food etc. At Ai, the Spies reported there were “Nephilim” in the land. Since the Bible labels both fallen angels and their offspring as Nephilim, it can’t be ruled out that Ai was not just inhabited by hybrids and collaborators.

We believe to say that angels are spiritual beings is to misunderstand the nature of the reality that is labeled “the Kingdom of God”. We are spiritual beings also and yet we exist (for a little while) in 3.5 dimensions. We know that soon we will be able (allowed) to “enjoy” the same amount as Jesus presently abides in, for “we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is”. You can be spiritual and physical at the same time. This “schism” seems to be a thrown back to Gnosticism.

Are any of us really physical on the quantum level? We are 95% empty space and possibly a provable hologram. The question is without meaning or value. Angels don’t “enter in” to our frame of reference they are already here. Elijah’s lesson. They appear to be capable of restricting themselves to the 3.5 when they need to “physically” interact with us. There is no evidence that they need permission to do this even. Our suspicion is we are capable of enjoying many more dimensions. Just not yet allowed to use those abilities. Just as the angels had “rules” that they broke maybe we do also. Remote viewing, contacting the dead and astral travel are maybe areas where we are not supposed to be playing but some are. This is the difference between angels and the demons of the New Testament. Angels can act within our reality and demons need a host to do so. The assumption that they are the same entities is, we believe, in error. At the least, it points out the difference between a spiritual being and a physical one.  

I would like to see any Biblical support for the idea the “and after that” is terminant. This is of course not evidence either way but it does support the possibility. Our position on this subject runs through not only our analysis of this subject but on all that we know of the creation God spoke into being for us. Hope this helps.

Research Staff

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